Curse

Zim. · Dec 10, 2009, 03:33 AM // 03:33

No matter what skills or build is being used to clear a dungeon, ecto prices and the value of the drops will be approximated. If SF is nerfed, dungeons will take much longer to clear and therefore the prices of the drops from the dungeons will go up. SF doesn't necessarily completely change GW but changes the economy so that we're dependant on lamesauce 20 minute runs for a few measly ecto that turn out not being that valuable. Remember the days when ecto were 20k each...back when GW was fun?

Braxton619 · Dec 10, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Here is the problem of Shadow Form getting nerfed. A lot of people think, including me, once SF gets hit, things will go back in normal price and the economy can be stabilized. This is what is going to happen most likely. Since SF was used in SC dungeons, dungeon weapons will go up. For instance, the bone dragon staff. Since there are a lot of SOOSC farmers, they stabilize the current price. SF was also used in "dayway" and UWSR of UW. This was the new UWSC. Ectos will probably go sky high unless a new SC is introduced.

Also armbraces will get more rare to get, therefore increasing the price. You will have to farm for rep a lot more because speedbooking will be no longer possible.

You may also see an increase of prices for elite tomes. Since sliver perma was probably the best and fastest way to farm most bosses, this could be a problem.

Since there will be a lot of mad people tomorrow, rage quits will be more commonly used now. This will create a huge problem for ANET. This means less money for MT/GW2.

I pray the economy won't be more screwed up once SF gets nerfed. You may see a great depression once items go sky-high.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

and im gona do some math for you realy quick. lets take 600/smite for example.

a good 600/smite team can do foundary in 30 minutes running players 20k a piece. thats 200k per hour not including drops so say 1 titan gem each run and that would be a total of around 250k per hour, now it takes 5 hours ish to get a sweet,party which ever title. doing uw with perma it just takes 1 luck run and come out with 750e+ giving you many titles. so yes it is very possible to get those max titles in less then 10 hours.

any title that you can buy and it only takes a few hours to get the money for using builds like perma 600/smite and so on is a complete joke.

EDIT: and by the way for permas sake back when salvers runs had just come out you could very easily come out with 500k+ per hour not including drops.

Ignoring your highly suspect math skills and assumptions, have you even played this game? Stop by DoA sometime. Let me know how long it takes you to get a full party together.

Not to mention the fact that to GET a Sin with perma capability to DoA without a big guild carrying you all the way will take MUCH longer than 10 hours of play.

And who cares about PvE titles like Drunkard? They have no effect on gameplay, and just go to show how much time you've wasted on pointless grind. So if some Sin drops 750 ectos to max out a bunch of buyable useless titles, PLEASE explain to me how that affects or ruins anyone else's gameplay experience?

Sure, come up with some BS about how its unfair, and I'll refer you to the time when Sins were laughed at when trying to join groups.

In the end, the acquisition of e-wealth in this game is solely for cosmetic sake. A req 8 maxed Crystalline Sword that sells for a bazillion ectos is of no more practical value than a collector Ascalon Razor. Add to that the fact that character levels max out at 20 its easy to see how the entire "economy" is just a smokescreen for pathetic people to fap their e-peens too.

Which basically means all the whiny QQers who complain about the economy being affected by SF unfairly are simply concerned that someone else's e-Barbie or e-Ken looks better than theirs in a shorter amount of time, which again, has no practical or numerical effects or advantages in actual gameplay.

Why ANet continues to nerf farming builds or worry about "e-wealth" in this game is beyond me, since the "economy" has no actual value when compared to something like WoW, where player made items and drops can actually make a character better than some gear they acquired in the first ten hours of gameplay, unlike in Guild Wars, where once you get a maxed armor set and a max weapon or two, your character from an effective standpoint is finished.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

and im gona do some math for you realy quick. lets take 600/smite for example.

a good 600/smite team can do foundary in 30 minutes running players 20k a piece. thats 200k per hour not including drops so say 1 titan gem each run and that would be a total of around 250k per hour, now it takes 5 hours ish to get a sweet,party which ever title. doing uw with perma it just takes 1 luck run and come out with 750e+ giving you many titles. so yes it is very possible to get those max titles in less then 10 hours.

any title that you can buy and it only takes a few hours to get the money for using builds like perma 600/smite and so on is a complete joke.

EDIT: and by the way for permas sake back when salvers runs had just come out you could very easily come out with 500k+ per hour not including drops.

Did you, or did you not, post this? I bolded the parts that you keep claiming you didn't say, just to help you out.

its bad to sin · Dec 10, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Did you, or did you not, post this? I bolded the parts that you keep claiming you didn't say, just to help you out.

LOL if u can try and read that corectly it says running slavers not foundary with the perma

its bad to sin · Dec 10, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Did you, or did you not, post this? I bolded the parts that you keep claiming you didn't say, just to help you out.

And also pretty sure that said it only takes 1 luck run. And u said that I said u could make the 750e every 10 hours.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

LOL if u can try and read that corectly it says running slavers not foundary with the perma

So you're going to argue semantics to salvage a losing proposition? I'm pretty sure the point being discussed is whether SF is fair/valid/balanced etc. Making a distinction between Foundry speedclears and Slavers' speedclears makes absolutely no sense, when arguing the point of this whole thread. SF is SF regardless of WHERE it is used.

Quote:

And also pretty sure that said it only takes 1 luck run. And u said that I said u could make the 750e every 10 hours.

Regardless of whether you determine its "luck" or not, the point is you still claim that its possible to make that kind of cash in that short time frame.

Instead of trying to twist my words and ignoring what you yourself wrote two posts before, try taking a deep breath, figure out what it is you're trying to argue, and that make a coherent statement. Simply trying to debunk the other side's argument doesn't add anything of value to the discussion, especially since anyone with a brain can see you have no idea what you are talking about.

its bad to sin · Dec 10, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

So you're going to argue semantics to salvage a losing proposition? I'm pretty sure the point being discussed is whether SF is fair/valid/balanced etc. Making a distinction between Foundry speedclears and Slavers' speedclears makes absolutely no sense, when arguing the point of this whole thread. SF is SF regardless of WHERE it is used.

Regardless of whether you determine its "luck" or not, the point is you still claim that its possible to make that kind of cash in that short time frame.

Instead of trying to twist my words and ignoring what you yourself wrote two LOL before, try taking a deep breath, figure out what it is you're trying to argue, and that make a coherent statement. Simply trying to debunk the other side's argument doesn't add anything of value to the discussion, especially since anyone with a brain can see you have no idea what you are talking about.

LOL k I'm done after this. Firs off 600 foundary is not a speed clear for 1. Second yes it is possible to make that money in that amount of time as where you exact words is that I said that you can make 750e every 10 hours. And 3rd nowhere did I ever twist your words 4th being that a perma is your main it is ok that your pissed that you know of no other way of making money after this nerf happens.so it's all good have a nice life and next time you Try and argue with some1 read everything they say and not twist it around and then every other post say your wrong and ok right. So good bye and have fun

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

So now that the blatant hypocrite is done, I'd just like to reiterate this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

As a quick comment on the people talking about how Anet has broken their "no grind" promise..... how? You can easily get to max level with maxed out weapons and armor and the skills for whatever build you feel like running in about a week. The only thing you have to "grind" for are skins, which are not in any way necessary. The "grind" is completely optional, anything that's hard to get is literally only there for the people who want to look different. Regular armor and collector weapons compete just as well as Obsidian armor and Torment weapons.

People act like you need to be swimming in money to be able to play the game and you don't. I do fine and I don't even bother with ectoplasms, all but 2 or so of the Obsidian sets look terribly bland which makes them worthless to me personally. Anet kept their promise, there's a difference between being able to reach the point where you're on a level playing field without any grind and being able to run the game completely dry in a week. Titles and expensive items give players something to strive for but they have absolutely no affect on being able to play the game.

This ^ SF does no harm to the game, and the economy is only there to allow players to play dress up with e-Barbie and e-Ken. If all the prestige crap was removed tomorrow, your characters would look different but would function exactly the same as they always have, and the "economy" would have no need to exist, at all. Which is proof positive that farming and Permasins are not a big deal. In one or two areas they have distinct advantages, but that's how this game is designed.

As I have said multiple times, nerfing SF won't change the fact that a meta exists, and will continue to exist long after this thread gets locked.

Nerel · Dec 10, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbox360gamemeister

Lets all be friends and share pumpkin pie. :P

I'm not to sure what Pumpkin Pie would say about that... maybe after a few drinks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

This ^ SF does no harm to the game, and the economy is only there to allow players to play dress up with e-Barbie and e-Ken. If all the prestige crap was removed tomorrow, your characters would look different but would function exactly the same as they always have, and the "economy" would have no need to exist, at all. Which is proof positive that farming and Permasins are not a big deal. In one or two areas they have distinct advantages, but that's how this game is designed.

As I have said multiple times, nerfing SF won't change the fact that a meta exists, and will continue to exist long after this thread gets locked.

So what you're saying is... removing SF via heavy handed nerfing wouldn't adversely affect the game, as it would just limit 'some' people's ability to play dress up with their characters?

Awesome, nerf away, Smiter's Boon it to oblivion. Then nuke it from orbit... just to be sure.

athariel · Dec 10, 2009, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blobbob

As a quick comment on the people talking about how Anet has broken their "no grind" promise..... how? You can easily get to max level with maxed out weapons and armor and the skills for whatever build you feel like running in about a week. The only thing you have to "grind" for are skins, which are not in any way necessary. The "grind" is completely optional, anything that's hard to get is literally only there for the people who want to look different. Regular armor and collector weapons compete just as well as Obsidian armor and Torment weapons.

People act like you need to be swimming in money to be able to play the game and you don't. I do fine and I don't even bother with ectoplasms, all but 2 or so of the Obsidian sets look terribly bland which makes them worthless to me personally. Anet kept their promise, there's a difference between being able to reach the point where you're on a level playing field without any grind and being able to run the game completely dry in a week. Titles and expensive items give players something to strive for but they have absolutely no affect on being able to play the game.

even if that was true... I don't really care about Obsidian Armor. I don't care about eblades, voltaic spears and tormented weapons. What I care about is that I'm going for GWAMM. I have already finished all cantha and elona (vanquisher, guardian and skillhunter). Now I'm slowly doing tyria. I have almost finished EotN title tracks. What's left? oh yeah, I need 3-4kk of gold to finish sweet tooth and party animal and possibly drunkard if I don't want to grind DTSC for faction. What about that?

Nerel · Dec 10, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by athariel

even if that was true... I don't really care about Obsidian Armor. I don't care about eblades, voltaic spears and tormented weapons. What I care about is that I'm going for GWAMM. I have already finished all cantha and elona (vanquisher, guardian and skillhunter). Now I'm slowly doing tyria. I have almost finished EotN title tracks. What's left? oh yeah, I need 3-4kk of gold to finish sweet tooth and party animal and possibly drunkard if I don't want to grind DTSC for faction. What about that?

Yeah, that's the optional grind people talk about, the stuff that isn't required to play the game, beat the game, or move into pvp...

The game itself is fairly grindless, but they added a lot of grindy 'optional' junk such as prestige armors and titles for people WHO WANT TO GRIND.

You don't get to choose to undertake some grindy OPTIONAL task and then whine about how grindy it is... well, not without looking foolish.

Tenebrae · Dec 10, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Yeah, that's the optional grind people talk about, the stuff that isn't required to play the game, beat the game, or move into pvp...

The game itself is fairly grindless, but they added a lot of grindy 'optional' junk such as prestige armors and titles for people WHO WANT TO GRIND.

You don't get to choose to undertake some grindy OPTIONAL task and then whine about how grindy it is... well, not without looking foolish.

Thats right , the funny thing you reminded me another entry for the famous "WTF is this guy thinking ?" list :
-Grind is needed for this game , i need my <insert expensive and not necessary at all item/armor stuff> so if they nerf SF , game is broken !.
All i can see now are excuses and fear ..... now you mentioned pvp , hope theres not going to be another discussion about if pvp is "grindish" at some point or not lmao.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

So what you're saying is... removing SF via heavy handed nerfing wouldn't adversely affect the game, as it would just limit 'some' people's ability to play dress up with their characters?

Awesome, nerf away, Smiter's Boon it to oblivion. Then nuke it from orbit... just to be sure.

I'm pretty sure you're missing the point here. SF is irrelevant to the problem of grinding and that the game's grind is all about playing dress up for guys.

Leave sf in or nerf it, the game will always have farming meta builds, and with a nerf of SF and consequent buffing of other skills, there may end up with an even MORE effective build.

The problem as I see it is simply all the hate directed SF's way, which is completely unjustified and infantile. If you're mad at SF and want to nuke it from orbit, why not all the other OP farming and tanking elites from other classes that allow the same damn thing?

People told me when I wanted to play a Sin in DoA that I should re-roll as a War, Ele or Monk. So I'm telling all those same intolerant douchebags that if they don't like it, roll a Sin. Same argument, same logic, just reversed on the arrogant and hypocritical pricks.

As long as there are items that require grinding, grinding will be in the game. As long as this is the case, there will always be builds that optimize the time/reward ratio. There will ALWAYS be a most efficient farming build, period. It is absolutely illogical to blame SF for this problem.

isildorbiafra · Dec 10, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

There will ALWAYS be a most efficient farming build, period.

I agree with you. Its time for change. Roll in the next meta.

UnChosen · Dec 10, 2009, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Yeah, that's the optional grind people talk about, the stuff that isn't required to play the game, beat the game, or move into pvp...

The game itself is fairly grindless, but they added a lot of grindy 'optional' junk such as prestige armors and titles for people WHO WANT TO GRIND.

You don't get to choose to undertake some grindy OPTIONAL task and then whine about how grindy it is... well, not without looking foolish.

Its also optional that people use SF, don't like it don't do it arguments = fail.

The real problem is far deeper than that...I'm getting tired of typing out my argument over and over so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

A majority of game contents are designed around grinding, but other than solo farming, none of the areas are designed for people to grind "normally" without using any sort of gimmick. You try to get all those titles using JUST "balanced" pugs in these end game areas, you won't finish them by the time Guild wars 3 comes out. That's the reason why so many people do gimmick speed clears....because it finally made those area worth it to do.

The reason why people do dungeon solos is because those areas are even WORSE than UW/DoA in terms of risk/reward ratio. 2 hours with balanced pugs for 2 diamonds...really? I just don't see how that kind of reward is balanced...

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildorbiafra

I agree with you. Its time for change. Roll in the next meta.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, when will OB Flesh and 600/Smite be nerfed so we can get the respective new metas for them?

Oh that's right, those builds are ok because SF haters were already well taken care of by those builds.

All I want is for the SF haters to stop trying to use bad reasoning to prove a dodgy point, and just admit they're biased against the Sin class, because that's really what hating on a specific farm skill, and not the state of the game that encourages/requires farming is based upon.

Nerel · Dec 10, 2009, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

At the risk of beating a dead horse, when will OB Flesh and 600/Smite be nerfed so we can get the respective new metas for them?

Maybe you missed it, but SF isn't the only skill on the chopping block, we're expecting Anet to be looking over a number of key farming skills, hopefully Spirit Bond will be tweaked to end the 600. As for Obsidian Flesh, sure it should be nerfed, blocking spells and physical attacks is WAY OVER POWERED, maybe they could rebalance it by making it only block spells and not attacks? Oh wait...

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Its also optional that people use SF, don't like it don't do it arguments = fail.

Of course it's optional, and I don't use it... see, it works. Maybe you could make another bad analogy?

The Arching Healer · Dec 10, 2009, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Just nerf 600 after the next double donate weekend

Gun Pierson · Dec 10, 2009, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

we're expecting Anet to be looking over a number of key farming skills

Yes that's exactly what they're gonna do, look but don't touch like it should be.

Farming is part of this game since day 1. An RPG without farming is like a pub without beer. Mass exodus guaranteed.